Posted by Pastor Greg Allen on August 21, 2012 under Ask the Pastor | 
A member of Bethany Bible church asks:
If Jesus the only person who went up to heaven—or if there were other people who went to heaven before Him. John 3:13 seems to be saying that nobody went to heaven except Jesus. But what about Enoch and Elijah?
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Dear friend,
The actual quote from John 3:13 reads this way: “No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven” (New King James Version). The larger issue in this verse seems clear enough—which, in the surrounding context, is how the “new birth” is accomplished (see vv. 1-8). But there’s a difference of opinion between those who believe that these are the words of the Lord Jesus Himself from John 3, and those who believe that they are a part of John’s commentary on Jesus’ words. That difference of opinion makes a big difference in how your question would be answered.
Some say that these are the words of the Lord Jesus Himself; and so, some translations carry the ‘quote marks’ on from verse 12 as if Jesus spoke them. If that’s the case, then when Jesus spoke them, He had not yet physically “ascended”. This word “ascended” goes together with the phrase “came down from”; and if you take one of them literally, you can’t take the other figuratively. You need to treat them the same. And so; if Jesus is using the word “ascended” figuratively (since He had not yet “ascended” as He would after His resurrection), then we should understand both figuratively. One way to take this, then, is to see “heaven” as not a reference to a “place” as much as to a “state”. “Heaven” would be a way of describing a unique communion with God the Father that gives perfect knowledge of spiritual realities—much like what Jesus said in Matthew 11:27, “All things have been delivered to Me by My Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father. Nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and the one to whom the Son wills to reveal Him.” This would fit the context well; because in verses 10-12, Jesus was speaking to Nicodemus about his ignorance of the spiritual realities of salvation—which He called “heavenly things” as opposed to “earthly things” (v. 12). If that’s the case, Jesus would be saying that no other person has ever entered into such deep communion with the heavenly Father—a communion so deep as to have a perfect knowledge of spiritual realities regarding the ‘new birth—but only Jesus the Son; who had first dwelt eternally with the Father and enjoyed perfect communion with Him, and then came to the earth and walked in the world of humanity in order to tell these things to us.
Others point out that the phrase at the end of this verse—”who is in heaven”—is not found in all the Greek texts. Some of our English translations, in fact, leave them out of the text and put them in the margin. But if they are legitimately a part of the text—and were expressing the idea that Jesus was, right then, in heaven—then it would show that these are the words of John and not of Jesus. And if that’s the case, then John was saying that no one “ascended” to heaven (literally), but He who first “came down from” heaven (literally)—specifying “the Son of Man who is [right then] in heaven”. This too would fit the context; because it would be like what Jesus said to Nathanael in 1:51; “Most assuredly, I say to you, hereafter you shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of Man.”
It probably doesn’t help you much that I offer two different interpretations. I believe that a good case can be made that either of them are legitimate. But I also believe that, whichever interpretation one embraces, the intended point remains the same. No one can reach up to heaven from earth. Our need is such that God must reach down to us in mercy—which He has done by sending His Son. You were right to point out that Enoch and Elijah both appear to have ascended to heaven without dying. But neither of them “came down from” heaven in order to tell us truth from God or show us the way to salvation. Only Jesus did. I believe that we can take Romans 10:6-10 in the light of all this: “But the righteousness of faith speaks in this way, ‘Do not say in your heart, “Who will ascend into heaven?” (that is, to bring Christ down from above) or, “Who will descend into the abyss?” (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead). But what does it say? ‘The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart’ (that is, the word of faith which we preach): that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.”
Thanks for a great question.
Posted by Pastor Greg Allen on June 3, 2009 under AM Bible Study |
AM Bible Study for Wednesday, June 3, 2009
Revelation 8:1-6
Theme: This passage describes the sober scene in heaven just before the outpouring of God’s wrath on earth begins.
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Posted by Pastor Greg Allen on May 27, 2009 under AM Bible Study |
AM Bible Study; May 27, 2009
Revelation 7:9-17
Theme: God gives a picture of the multitude in glory that comes out of the great tribulation.
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Posted by Pastor Greg Allen on July 8, 2008 under Ask the Pastor |
A visitor to our website writes:
The Bible talks about more than one heaven. Please help me to understand where the first heaven and second, third, fourth heavens are at.
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Dear friend,
The passage of Scripture that I believe you’re drawing this question from is 2 Corinthians 12:1-6. Most New Testament scholars agree that Paul is speaking of himself in this passage; and is making reference to something that happened to him in which he was given a vision of heavenly glory. (I have often wondered if it was the stoning that he experienced in Acts 14:19-20; but since he doesn’t elaborate on it, perhaps its best not to speculate too much.) He was writing to the Corinthian church—seeking to defend his authority as an apostle to them; and so, it seems as if he writes in a sort of ‘back-handed’ kind of way. He writes;
It is doubtless not profitable for me to boast. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord: I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago—whether in the body I do not know, or whether out of the body I do not know, God knows—such a one was caught up to the third heaven. And I know such a man—whether in the body or out of the body I do not know, God knows—how he was caught up into Paradise and heard inexpressible words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter. Of such a one I will boast; yet of myself I will not boast, except in my infirmities. For though I might desire to boast, I will not be a fool; for I will speak the truth. But I refrain, lest anyone should think of me above what he sees me to be or hears from me (2 Corinthians 12:1-6; NKJV; emphasis added).
In the original language of his letter, Paul writes here of being caught up to tritou ouranou (“third heaven”). The word “heaven” (ouranos) can have several different meanings; and the context is what determines which meaning is intended.
For example, ouranos can refer to the atmosphere above the ground and as distinguished from the surface of the earth. In Matthew 6:26, Jesus says, “Look at the birds of the air . . .”; and the word used in the Greek for “air” is ouranos. In a similar sense, the word can be used of the “air” in a metaphoric sense. Jesus uses the word in this way in Matthew 11:23 when He says, “And you, Capernaum, who are exalted to heaven, will be brought down to Hades . . .” In that case, the word is suggesting the idea of someone elevating themselves and boasting themselves up, as it were, into the sky over everyone else.
A second way this word can be used, broadly speaking, is in reference to what we today might call “space” in contrast to the earth—that is, that place far above the atmosphere in which the visible heavenly bodies (the sun, the moon, the stars, and the planets) are to be found. The plural form of the word ouranos is used in the Greek translation of the Old Testament (the Septuagint) in Psalm 8:3-4; “When I consider Your heavens, the work of Your fingers, The moon and the stars, which You have ordained, What is man that You are mindful of him, And the son of man that You visit him?” I believe the same use of this word is intended in Psalm 19:1; “The heavens declare the glory of God; And the firmament shows His handiwork.”
A third, and probably the most obvious way that ouranos is used is as the transcendent abode of God from which He rules over His creation, and in which dwells the angels and the glorified spirits of His redeemed people. Jesus says, “But I say to you, do not swear at all: neither by heaven, for it is God’s throne; nor by the earth, for it is His footstool . . .” (Matthew 5:34-35). There may be some variations here or there; but mainly, those are the three different ways that the word ouranos is used: (1) in reference to the sky above the ground, (2) in reference to space, and (3) in reference to the spiritual realm in which God dwells.
In which sense, then, was Paul speaking of “heaven”? I believe that what he meant is made clear to us by a couple of clues. First, note that he wasn’t sure whether the person he was speaking of (again, probably himself) was “in the body or out of the body”; so we can eliminate the concepts of “sky” and “space”. And second, note that in the sentence after mentioning “the third heaven”, he refers to the same place as “Paradise” (which basically means ‘an enclosed garden’, a place of beauty; but which here refers to the place of transcendent blessedness). Jesus told the thief on the cross who was dying next to Him, “Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise” (Luke 23:43); and this, of course, is a clear reference to heaven in the third sense—that is, the spiritual, transcendent realm into which Jesus was about to enter in glory.
Now; it isn’t likely that Paul is speaking of different levels of “heaven” in that third sense. There are some ancient Jewish, non-biblical writings that suggest a multi-layered heaven; and our ideas today of such a thing (that is “a seventh heaven”) are drawn largely from fiction and poetry (such as that which came to us from Dante). I believe, then, that (assuming that he was speaking of an experience he had) Paul was describing an experience in which he was given a view of heaven in that third sense (whether in the body or out of the body). Why did he call it “third” heaven? There’s a couple of possibilities that make sense. One would be that he was distinguishing this ouranos from the physical realms of the sky or space. Perhaps he was in a sense saying, “I was taken up to heaven”—not heaven #1 (the sky), or heaven #2 (outer space); but all the way up to heaven #3—the place we know as “Paradise”. Another possibility—and the one that I believe makes the most sense—is that he was saying “third heaven” as a way of saying “the most exalted, the most glorious, the highest all heavens”. The Bible sometimes uses the number “three” as a way of expressing the most exalted and perfect form of a thing (see Isaiah 6:3 for example; and the angelic cry, “Holy, holy, holy is the LORD of hosts . . .”).
In closing, let me affirm that it can be the confident expectation of any man or woman who trusts in Jesus that they will one day be in this place called “third heaven”. That was the promise Jesus made to that thief on the cross; and that thief is there even now! We may wish we could have heard more about this wonderful place; but Paul could not tell us. He “heard inexpressible words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter”. But those of us who have our faith in Jesus Christ know from the Scriptures that we have a hope laid up for us there (Colossians 1:5); and even now have our citizenship there (Philippians 3:20). What a glorious hope is ours in Christ—laid up for us in “the third heaven”!
Blessings in Jesus’ love,
Pastor Greg
Bethany Bible Church
(All Scripture quotes are taken from the New King James Version.)
Posted by Pastor Greg Allen on April 10, 2002 under Ask the Pastor |
Question: Can you give some insight into the Bible’s teaching about “the new heaven and the new earth”? Some groups teach that the 144,000 mentioned in the Book of Revelation will be the only ones in the new heaven; and that everyone else will be in the new earth. What is the new heaven and the new earth? Are these two different places? Who will be in them?
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Dear Friend,
The Bible teaches us that God is the creator of the heavens and the earth (Genesis 1:1). But it also teaches us that this present creation – the present heavens and the present earth – are temporary in nature. Peter writes that God spoke the heavens and earth into being; “But the present heavens and the earth which are now preserved by the same word, are reserved for fire until the day of judgment and perdition [or destruction] of ungodly men” (1 Peter 3:7). Peter elaborates on this when he writes, “But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up” (v. 10). Peter speaks of the destruction of the present heavens and earth as something literal: “Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be devolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat?” (vv. 11-12). And he adds, “Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for a new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells” (v. 13).
The most explicit description of the new heavens and the new earth we have in the Bible is found in its last two chapters, in Revelation 21-22. This passage begins with these words: “Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away …” (Rev. 21:1). As beautiful as this present creation is, the future creation – as it’s described for us in these passages – is beautiful and glorious beyond conception! Its centerpiece will be “New Jerusalem”; a glorious city in which we will forever dwell with the literal presence of Jesus (Rev. 21:2-3).
The Bible doesn’t present the new heavens and the new earth as if they were two separate, distinct places – as if the new heavens were one place with only one specific population, and the new earth another place with a completely different population. Nor does the Bible mention them apart from one another. Since they replace the “old creation”, I believe it’s best to see them as simply two aspects of the one “new creation” – and to see them mentioned together as a way to express the wholeness of the new creation.
It’s true that the Bible mentions other nations that surround this New Jerusalem. We’re told “And the nations of those who are saved shall walk in its light, and the kings of the earth bring their glory and honor into it” (v. 24). And the mention of “nations” and “kings” surrounding New Jerusalem have led some cult groups to teach that they will be the distinct occupants of this glorious, heavenly city – with everyone else outside-looking-in. But the Bible tells us that all unsaved, unredeemed people, whose names have not been written in the Lambs Book of Life will have been cast forever in a distinct place called “the lake of fire” (Rev. 20:11-15). There will not be any “outsiders” and “insiders” in the new creation. All its occupants will be “insiders” only (21:27). Apparently, then, there will be surrounding nations and kingdoms of redeemed, glorified people that will retain some sense of distinction; but all will be subject to King Jesus, and will worship Him at His throne in New Jerusalem – bringing “the glory and the honor of the nations into it” (v. 26). I take it, then, that all who wish to may dwell in the New Jerusalem. No specific group will be awarded this honor above another, because all those who dwell in the new creation will be “written in the Lamb’s Book of Life”.
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This leads to the question of who the 144,000 are. They’re mentioned in two places in the Bible. The first time they’re found is in Revelation 7:4-8. In this first passage, they’re introduced to us during an intermission between the opening of the sixth and the seventh seal; the seventh introducing a dreadful outpouring of God’s wrath upon an unbelieving and unrepentant world. There we read that this group is “sealed” by God, and that it is very specifically composed of those from the twelve tribes of Israel. They are even very specifically numbered as 12,000 from each specific tribe.
Revelation 14:1-5 mentions them again, and gives us some specific details about them. We read, “Then I looked, and behold, a Lamb standing on Mount Zion, and with Him one hundred and forty-four thousand, having His Father’s name written on their foreheads. And I heard a voice from heaven like the voice of many waters, and like the voice of loud thunder. And I heard the sound of harpist playing their harps. They sang as it were a new song before the throne, before the four living creatures, and the elders; and no one could learn that song except the hundred and forty-four thousand who were redeemed from the earth. These are the ones who were not defiled with women, for they are virgins. These are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever He goes. These were redeemed from among men, being firstfruits to God and to the Lamb. And in there mouth was found no deceit, for they are without fault before the throne of God.”
Many cult groups are eager to identify themselves as this elite group. The details that are given about the 144,000, however, appear to be literal descriptions; and when taken as such, none of these cult groups could possibly fulfill the qualifications. The 144,000 are specifically from the twelve literal tribes of Israel – and none of these cult groups can make a claim to being anything like that – except by interpreting this passage symbolically. (By the way; God has successfully preserved the Jewish people as a distinct group upon the earth to this very day. And so He is – I’m sure you’ll agree – more than able to preserve twelve-thousand from these twelve distinct tribes for this future “sealing” if He so wishes – even if they don’t know who they are.) These also are specifically “virgins” (and I haven’t heard anyone who says they’re in this group make THAT claim yet – except again, of course, “symbolically”.). These cult groups make the claim to be the 144,000 now; and yet, the 144,000 aren’t even identified until a specific time during the period of Great Tribulation – that is between the sixth and seventh seals. Nor can those who claim to be the 144,000 in the new heavens be what they claim to be; because the Bible describes the 144,000 as “standing on Mount Zion”. Nowhere in the Bible are they presented to us as a distinct group in the new heavens.
I note that the introduction of this group of 144,000 Jews is followed by a description of “a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, with palm branches in their hands, and crying out with a loud voice, saying, ‘Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!’” (Rev. 7:9-10). We’re told that this great multitude is composed of those who “come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the lamb” (v. 14). This great multitude (as distinct from the 144,000) are very manifestly in heavenly glory. So I offer this as my interpretation: I take it that the 144,000 are redeemed Jewish men that God will rise up at a date in the future, and who will be used by God as mighty “evangelists” for the Gospel of Jesus Christ – the result of whose ministry during the great tribulation will be the salvation of a great multitude before the outpouring of God’s wrath upon the earth.
Pastor Greg
(All Scripture quotes are taken from the New King James Version.)
